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jannie
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1852
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Brother Philip wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Kathleen wrote: | Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
Yep, name...not names. |
AND OF , AND OF------------ you got to be kidding----------- i dont think you have anything left---------now your getting REAL foolish - as in, More than Before------------- or am i being symbolic |
No, you're showing your true colors, as usual.
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. |
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other one
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 12034
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Washed Again wrote: | | other one wrote: | | Washed Again wrote: | | other one wrote: | | Rhomphaia wrote: | | other one wrote: | He was in the form of God....
Does not count being equal with God something to grasp.
I just don't follow your logic Joe. |
This is a difficult verse to translate because it is actually written as a line of poetry, which could be just as difficult to understand in Greek as they are in English. Most translations make it look like Jesus chose NOT to be equal with God. Actually, that is not what this verse says.
First, in the Philippians passage, this is how the "Jesus song" breaks down:
Jesus was in the very form of God - the word used here indicated INTERNAL form - Jesus was God to His core
Jesus, being equal with God, did not need to grasp at anything. The ISV actually translates the meaning of this verse best (and they did something that is nearly impossible to do very well: they preserve the fact that the Greek is done in "poem" form, almost as though Paul were quoting a song). I include the entire "poem" or "song" as translated from the ISV at the end of this post.
Here is what this song is saying: Jesus was fully God right to the core, already had equality with God, and yet, did not seek great things for himself, but rather, humbled Himself and took on the form of a servant.
When Jesus took on the "form" of a servant, the word is different than the one used of being in God's form. This one indicates external, outward appearance. His internal divinity did not change.
Further, the gospel of John makes it clear that Jesus is God, is the creator, and is due EQUAL honor with the father (John 1:1-3, 14; 5:23).
In Colossians, Paul says this:
"For in Him dwells the whole fullness of absolute divinity in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9)
That is crystal clear: Jesus is fully and completely God in every way.
Here is the "Jesus song" translated in a form that attempts to preserve the "poetic" nature of the Greek while also relating what it is saying with almost unmatched accurately (from the ISV):
In God's own form existed he,
And shared with God equality,
Deemed nothing needed grasping.
Instead, poured out in emptiness,
A servant's form did he possess,
A mortal man becoming.
In human form he chose to be,
And lived in all humility,
Death on a cross obeying.
Now lifted up by God to heaven,
A name above all others given,
This matchless name possessing.
And so, when Jesus' name is called,
The knees of everyone should fall
Where'er they are residing.
Then every tongue in one accord,
Will say that Jesus Christ is Lord,
While God the Father praising. (Philippians 2:6-11)
Hope this clears it up.
Grace and peace to you,
Rhomphaia |
Romphaia, I do not see any place in all my study notes, bibles, literal translations and word for word translations where this verse says that he is equial with The Father.
In every case the word used in relationship with Jeuss is saying that he is diety, and when speaking of the Father is "The Diety".
I've looked for a great number of years to see what you are saying, and I just can't take your word for it.
Jesus plainly says in the verse that Philip posted that the Father is greater than he, and I don't understand why you can't just take his word for it.
BTW, I do not disagree that we should worship both of them, and give praise to Jesus as the Father has reised him to greatness..... but I just can't go along with what you're saying from what I read just about everywhere. |
I think that you are not taking into account that when Jesus made this distinction, he himself had chosen to lower himself.... not that he is not equal to God the father. How could he be any less... He Himself is GOD. |
Washed, what does the word "God" mean? |
Creator of all.... the Alpha and Omega... through Him all things. The ONE who is superior in all things and has absolute dominion over all. All powerful, all knowing being.
What do you think the word "God" means? |
Well, you are only taking a small part of what the word denotes, for the same Greek word "Theos" is the same when speaking of "our God" as when it speaks of pagan gods or whatever tends to rule your life.
Example: | Quote: | Phil 3:17-19
Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame — who set their mind on earthly thing
NKJV
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"god" is anything that controls what someone does or worships as something greater than him/herself, usually some form of Diety meaning higher than humans; examples of this would be the demons that the pagans sacrificed to that Paul told us to avoid.
Same word in the New Testament that we use for the Father or Jesus or the Spitit. What makes our "God" different is that they (the three of them) are one single unit that are agreement on everything. They all three have existed since before time itself and have a single purpose.
Your definition of the word is a small part of the things that the word is used for in total, and it's the rest of the story so to speak that causes disagreements and long threads on the subject.
When I say god, I could mean anything from a demonic super being, to an eating disorder all the way to "The Father" who is usually referred to as "The God".
That's why I ask for people's defination of that word, for we don't all hear or see the same thing when that word pops up.
Is the Father God........ Yep; is Jesus God...... Yep only he is also usually referred to as Lord; is the Holy Spirit God....... Yep he is. Are all three of them our God........ Yep they are..... Do we have anything else in the world that is our god....... I think we'd all agree that the answer should be no...... but the Bible tells us that there are many gods, and many lords, but for us there are only one, and whether you call Jesus our Lord, or God really doesn't matter to me, He is our only access to the Father through the Spirit which makes all three necessary for us to be one with either or all of the three.
And we'll just discuss the realtionship of the three, till the cows come home, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it takes all three of them to interface with the human race.
Hope that helps understand what I mean when I use that word. |
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Brother Philip
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 4611
Location: Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Kathleen wrote: | Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
Yep, name...not names. |
AND OF , AND OF------------ you got to be kidding----------- i dont think you have anything left---------now your getting REAL foolish - as in, More than Before------------- or am i being symbolic |
No, you're showing your true colors, as usual.
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. |
you got me on this one, maybe ---------but there is a cause--------- your Talking foolish and your not preaching the same Jesus i believe in |
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Washed Again
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 3434
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | "god" is anything that controls what someone does or worships as something greater than him/herself, usually some form of Diety meaning higher than humans; examples of this would be the demons that the pagans sacrificed to that Paul told us to avoid.
Same word in the New Testament that we use for the Father or Jesus or the Spitit. What makes our "God" different is that they (the three of them) are one single unit that are agreement on everything. They all three have existed since before time itself and have a single purpose.
Your definition of the word is a small part of the things that the word is used for in total, and it's the rest of the story so to speak that causes disagreements and long threads on the subject.
When I say god, I could mean anything from a demonic super being, to an eating disorder all the way to "The Father" who is usually referred to as "The God".
That's why I ask for people's defination of that word, for we don't all hear or see the same thing when that word pops up.
Is the Father God........ Yep; is Jesus God...... Yep only he is also usually referred to as Lord; is the Holy Spirit God....... Yep he is. Are all three of them our God........ Yep they are..... Do we have anything else in the world that is our god....... I think we'd all agree that the answer should be no...... but the Bible tells us that there are many gods, and many lords, but for us there are only one, and whether you call Jesus our Lord, or God really doesn't matter to me, He is our only access to the Father through the Spirit which makes all three necessary for us to be one with either or all of the three.
And we'll just discuss the realtionship of the three, till the cows come home, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it takes all three of them to interface with the human race.
Hope that helps understand what I mean when I use that word. |
Ummmmmm when someone uses lower case g for God... It is reasonable to understand that they are speaking of something or someone other than The God.
Sorry... I don't get what you are getting at.
Or if someone does use upper case G for God but attributes characteristics and qualities that do not line up with what God has clearly revealed about himself in His written word, I get that they are not speaking of the true One God.
Again... not sure what your point is.
I have a fever, again  and may not be reading your correctly.
Last edited by Washed Again on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rhomphaia
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1977
Location: Very often in front of my computer.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| other one wrote: |
Well, you are only taking a small part of what the word denotes, for the same Greek word "Theos" is the same when speaking of "our God" as when it speaks of pagan gods or whatever tends to rule your life.
Example: | Quote: | Phil 3:17-19
Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame — who set their mind on earthly thing
NKJV
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"god" is anything that controls what someone does or worships as something greater than him/herself, usually some form of Diety meaning higher than humans; examples of this would be the demons that the pagans sacrificed to that Paul told us to avoid.
Same word in the New Testament that we use for the Father or Jesus or the Spitit. What makes our "God" different is that they (the three of them) are one single unit that are agreement on everything. They all three have existed since before time itself and have a single purpose.
Your definition of the word is a small part of the things that the word is used for in total, and it's the rest of the story so to speak that causes disagreements and long threads on the subject.
When I say god, I could mean anything from a demonic super being, to an eating disorder all the way to "The Father" who is usually referred to as "The God".
That's why I ask for people's defination of that word, for we don't all hear or see the same thing when that word pops up.
Is the Father God........ Yep; is Jesus God...... Yep only he is also usually referred to as Lord; is the Holy Spirit God....... Yep he is. Are all three of them our God........ Yep they are..... Do we have anything else in the world that is our god....... I think we'd all agree that the answer should be no...... but the Bible tells us that there are many gods, and many lords, but for us there are only one, and whether you call Jesus our Lord, or God really doesn't matter to me, He is our only access to the Father through the Spirit which makes all three necessary for us to be one with either or all of the three.
And we'll just discuss the realtionship of the three, till the cows come home, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it takes all three of them to interface with the human race.
Hope that helps understand what I mean when I use that word. |
That is all well and fine, but scripture makes it clear that all the little "gods," such as things, or people, or idols, or demons, are not REAL gods. There are many little pretend gods. There is only ONE real God.
Jesus is the real God. The Father is the real God. The Holy Spirit is the real God. And they are one God, who is the only REAL God.
Unless I clearly state otherwise (and use a small "g"), when I say "God," I am referencing the one and only REAL God, the God who is the Alpha and Omega, the creator of all things, the savior of all who believe, the God who is Spirit and Light and Truth.
Just for your information, normally, when a person mentions a "god" (small "g"), they are referencing your long list of fake gods. It is when they mention "God" (capital "G") that they are mentioning the real God (even if they don't know for sure who He is).
If for some reason you are incapable or unwilling to distinguish between a fake "god," and the One and Only real God, that is your problem. But make no mistake: your inability to see the difference does not mean there isn't a difference. So feel free to list phoney gods along with the real God all you want. I won't be doing that.
Grace and peace to you,
Rhomphaia |
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other one
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 12034
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Washed Again wrote: | | Quote: | "god" is anything that controls what someone does or worships as something greater than him/herself, usually some form of Diety meaning higher than humans; examples of this would be the demons that the pagans sacrificed to that Paul told us to avoid.
Same word in the New Testament that we use for the Father or Jesus or the Spitit. What makes our "God" different is that they (the three of them) are one single unit that are agreement on everything. They all three have existed since before time itself and have a single purpose.
Your definition of the word is a small part of the things that the word is used for in total, and it's the rest of the story so to speak that causes disagreements and long threads on the subject.
When I say god, I could mean anything from a demonic super being, to an eating disorder all the way to "The Father" who is usually referred to as "The God".
That's why I ask for people's defination of that word, for we don't all hear or see the same thing when that word pops up.
Is the Father God........ Yep; is Jesus God...... Yep only he is also usually referred to as Lord; is the Holy Spirit God....... Yep he is. Are all three of them our God........ Yep they are..... Do we have anything else in the world that is our god....... I think we'd all agree that the answer should be no...... but the Bible tells us that there are many gods, and many lords, but for us there are only one, and whether you call Jesus our Lord, or God really doesn't matter to me, He is our only access to the Father through the Spirit which makes all three necessary for us to be one with either or all of the three.
And we'll just discuss the realtionship of the three, till the cows come home, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it takes all three of them to interface with the human race.
Hope that helps understand what I mean when I use that word. |
Ummmmmm when someone uses lower case g for God... It is reasonable to understand that they are speaking of something or someone other than The God.
Sorry... I don't get what you are getting at.
Or if someone does use upper case G for God but attributes characteristics and qualities that do not line up with what God has clearly revealed about himself in His written word, I get that they are not speaking of the true One God.
Again... not sure what your point is.
I have a fever, again and may not be reading your correctly. |
There is no upper or lower case in either Greek or Hebrew..... you have to take the context of the sentences to see if they are talking about "our God" or something else. God is a description of somethings position in the world, it is not a description of thier being. In other words god is a status, not the defination of a being. The FAther is The God because he is the God of Gods..... even Jesus..... |
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other one
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 12034
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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In case your doubt that last statement:
| Quote: | John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God .'"
NKJV
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Washed Again
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 3434
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| other one wrote: | | Washed Again wrote: | | Quote: | "god" is anything that controls what someone does or worships as something greater than him/herself, usually some form of Diety meaning higher than humans; examples of this would be the demons that the pagans sacrificed to that Paul told us to avoid.
Same word in the New Testament that we use for the Father or Jesus or the Spitit. What makes our "God" different is that they (the three of them) are one single unit that are agreement on everything. They all three have existed since before time itself and have a single purpose.
Your definition of the word is a small part of the things that the word is used for in total, and it's the rest of the story so to speak that causes disagreements and long threads on the subject.
When I say god, I could mean anything from a demonic super being, to an eating disorder all the way to "The Father" who is usually referred to as "The God".
That's why I ask for people's defination of that word, for we don't all hear or see the same thing when that word pops up.
Is the Father God........ Yep; is Jesus God...... Yep only he is also usually referred to as Lord; is the Holy Spirit God....... Yep he is. Are all three of them our God........ Yep they are..... Do we have anything else in the world that is our god....... I think we'd all agree that the answer should be no...... but the Bible tells us that there are many gods, and many lords, but for us there are only one, and whether you call Jesus our Lord, or God really doesn't matter to me, He is our only access to the Father through the Spirit which makes all three necessary for us to be one with either or all of the three.
And we'll just discuss the realtionship of the three, till the cows come home, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it takes all three of them to interface with the human race.
Hope that helps understand what I mean when I use that word. |
Ummmmmm when someone uses lower case g for God... It is reasonable to understand that they are speaking of something or someone other than The God.
Sorry... I don't get what you are getting at.
Or if someone does use upper case G for God but attributes characteristics and qualities that do not line up with what God has clearly revealed about himself in His written word, I get that they are not speaking of the true One God.
Again... not sure what your point is.
I have a fever, again and may not be reading your correctly. |
There is no upper or lower case in either Greek or Hebrew..... you have to take the context of the sentences to see if they are talking about "our God" or something else. God is a description of somethings position in the world, it is not a description of their being. In other words god is a status, not the definition of a being. The FAther is The God because he is the God of Gods..... even Jesus..... |
Otherone, I am well aware that there is no upper case nor lower case in Greek or Hebrew... not sure why you would even bring it up.
We do have upper and lower in our language though.
And I believe that I covered taking in context of sentences to see what people are talking about..... If someone is speaking of The God but their descriptions and perceptions of their god does not line up with what God himself has revealed of Himself in His very word, then you can safely assume that they don't not know THE ONE TRUE God....
I still don't get your point. We only know of the One True God by what He, Himself tells us in His word of Himself... anything other than that, is suspect as being a false god.
What does this have to do with Worshiping Jesus?
Jesus is God, therefore worthy of Worship... for we are to Worship God.
Seriously, am I missing something? |
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other one
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 12034
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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I do understand that there is a contextual difference in God the Father and Satan when he or any number of his folowers are referred to as god, but the word itself does not have any special difference without using the context it is written it.
I have no trouble in that, I just don't agree that the word "God" used to describe the Father (Ton Theon) in the first chapter of John is the same context as the word God (theos) describing what the Word was in that same verse.
All of my dictionairies say that there is a difference in "The God" and "God". It's not a matter of me not understanding what the words mean, the problem is that calling Jesus God and the Father God or for that matter Lucifer God, there is not any real difference in the word itself, it referrs to where you place the position of what you are calling God in relation to yourself or who you're speaking of.
Too many people say that Jesus is God and the Father is God so they are the same, and that's not logically necessairly true just from the use of the word, for "God" means many many other things than "Trinity"... and there are several people on this board who do this. |
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Tdye84
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 4103
Location: standing in the seaspray
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Rhom. You saved some of us a lot of typing.
As far as whether directing our worship to Christ is... shall we say... proper? Orthodox? I tend to be in remembrance of a couple times when Christ is, indeed, bowed down to and worshiped and addressed as God without any argument from Him. I think the words were,"My savior and my God!" or something like that. I believe doubting Thomas was one of them. Did one of the ladies do something like that too? I can't seem to remember too clearly atm (HHS, that's internet slang for "at the moment") but it seems to me that one of them did.
It seems to me that even one example in scripture of Christ being worshiped as God answers the question of whether Christ can/should be worshiped in such a fashion. If He was not to be worshiped like that, He would have promptly redirected the worship to its rightful recipient.
Just my two bucks (inflation is awful, isn't it?). |
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Tdye84
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 4103
Location: standing in the seaspray
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I am shocked at myself for not remembering this next verse until now: The famous verse, John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Most of us here are aware that this is speaking of Christ. Christ is God. The exacts of the Trinity and how it operates aside, Christ is God. Yes, by all means, worship Christ! |
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other one
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 12034
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tdye84 wrote: | I am shocked at myself for not remembering this next verse until now: The famous verse, John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Most of us here are aware that this is speaking of Christ. Christ is God. The exacts of the Trinity and how it operates aside, Christ is God. Yes, by all means, worship Christ! |
Tdye, the two words that are translated God in that verse are not the same. The English translation just using the word God for both puts meaning in the sentence that is not there in the original. |
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Rhomphaia
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1977
Location: Very often in front of my computer.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| other one wrote: | I do understand that there is a contextual difference in God the Father and Satan when he or any number of his folowers are referred to as god, but the word itself does not have any special difference without using the context it is written it.
I have no trouble in that, I just don't agree that the word "God" used to describe the Father (Ton Theon) in the first chapter of John is the same context as the word God (theos) describing what the Word was in that same verse.
All of my dictionairies say that there is a difference in "The God" and "God". It's not a matter of me not understanding what the words mean, the problem is that calling Jesus God and the Father God or for that matter Lucifer God, there is not any real difference in the word itself, it referrs to where you place the position of what you are calling God in relation to yourself or who you're speaking of.
Too many people say that Jesus is God and the Father is God so they are the same, and that's not logically necessairly true just from the use of the word, for "God" means many many other things than "Trinity"... and there are several people on this board who do this. |
There is a difference, but I'm not sure it is the kind of difference you think it is. The difference is one of individual or definiteness, NOT of essence. In technical terms, "theos" in the third clause of John 1:1 is qualitative, stating the equality of the essence while maintaining that the two are not the same person.
In other words, the lack of the article tells us that the logos is not the same individual as "ton theon," but the word order tells us that logos is just as much GOD as "ton theon."
Here is an explanation from one of the top Greek scholars in the world:
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The nominative case is the case that the subject is in. When the subject takes an equative verb like "is" (i.e. a verb that equates the subject with something else), then another noun also appears in the nominative case - the predicate nominative. IN the sentence, "John is a man," "John" is the subject and "man" is the predicate nominative. In English the subject and predicate nominative are distinguished by word order (the subject comes first). Not so in Greek. Since word order in Greek is quite flexible and is used for emphasis rather than for strict grammatical function, other means are used to distinguish subject from predicate nominative. For example, if one of the two nouns has the definite article, it is the subject.
As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. The English versions typically have, "and the Word was God." But in Greek, the word order has been reversed. It reads,
και θεος ην ο λογος
and God was the Word
We know that "the Word" is the subject because it has the definite article, and we translate it accordingly: "and the Word was God." Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) why was θεος thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article? In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: "What God was, the Word was" is how one translation brings out this force. Its lack of a definite article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word (Jesus Christ) with the person of "God" (the Father). That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John's wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of an article is against Sabellianism*; the word order is against Arianism.**
To state this another way, look at how the different Greek constructions would be rendered:
και ο λογος ην ο θεος = "the Word was the God" (i.e. the Word was the Father; Sabellianism)
και ο λογος ην θεος = "the Word was a god" (i.e. the Word was a lesser god than the Father; Arianism)
και θεος ην ο λογος = "the Word was God" (i.e. the Word was equally God with the Father, but is not the Father Himself; Orthodoxy)
Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But He is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in και θεος ην ο λογος.
Daniel B. Wallace
====================
Footnotes are mine for explanation purposes, and are as follows:
* Sabellianism states that ultimately, the Son IS the Father IS the Holy Spirit: all are but modes, manifestations, or images of the One God.
** Arianism states that Jesus is divine, but is a lesser god than the Father: Jesus is not equal to the Father.
I hope this helps.
Grace and peace to you,
Rhomphaia |
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jannie
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1852
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| other one wrote: | | Tdye84 wrote: | I am shocked at myself for not remembering this next verse until now: The famous verse, John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Most of us here are aware that this is speaking of Christ. Christ is God. The exacts of the Trinity and how it operates aside, Christ is God. Yes, by all means, worship Christ! |
Tdye, the two words that are translated God in that verse are not the same. The English translation just using the word God for both puts meaning in the sentence that is not there in the original. |
Actually, there are many names for God....also called Lord, interchangeably.
To deny that Jesus is Lord is to deny Him as God.
In the Old Testament, alone....Jesus created all things, He's the redeemer and the righteous one. Jesus is God and Lord. He is God with us...Emmanuel.
| Matthew 1:23 wrote: | | Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. |
If you look carefully through this list you'll see Jesus...over and over again.
| Quote: | The Names of God and Their Meaning in the Old Testament
Jah/Yah
LORD or Kurios in Greek
Psalms 68:4 "Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him."
Isaiah 12:2 "Behold, God <is> my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH <is> my strength and <my> song; he also is become my salvation."
Isaiah 26:4 "Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH <is> everlasting strength:"
Jehovah/Yahweh/Yahway or YHVH/YHWH
LORD, meaning: He will be, eternal, to be, to exist, and always is. Unchangeable. This name is unique to God alone. The covenant-keeping God. (El Shaddai shows God as coverant maker.)
Exodus 3:13-14 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, <when> I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What <is> his name? what shall I say unto them? {14} And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by <the name of> God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Jehovah - Adon (singular); Jehovah - Adonai (plural)
LORD of lords. To judge or rule. Includes meaning of master of owner as well as lord. Emphasizes God as almighty ruler and covenant- keeper.
Nehemiah 10:29 "They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes"
Psalms 109:21 "But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake: because thy mercy <is> good, deliver thou me."
YHVH
LORD. Used with Adonai Lord in Exodus 4:10
Exodus 4:10 "And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I <am> not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I <am> slow of speech, and of a slow tongue."
Jehovah - El
Singular form - LORD God.
Psalms 31:5 "Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth."
Jehovah - Elohim
Uni-Plural form (3-in-1) - LORD Gods; Strong or mighty and object of fear. The compound emphasizes God as: creator, governing and redeeming man. Also God's direct connection with the nation of Israel.
Genesis 2:4 "These <are> the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"
Numbers 23:22 "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn."
Jehovah - Elyon
The LORD most high.
Psalms 7:17 "I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high."
Jehovah - Jireh
The LORD will provide.
Genesis 22:13-14 "And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind <him> a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. {14} And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said <to> this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."
Principal of Jireh is fulfilled in the New Testament for any need
Matthew 21:22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."
Philippians 4:19 "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
Jehovah - Makeh
The LORD smites, punishes sin.
Ezekiel 7:9 "And mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: I will recompense thee according to thy ways and thine abominations <that> are in the midst of thee; and ye shall know that I <am> the LORD that smiteth."
Jehovah - Mekaddishkem
The LORD our sanctifer.
Leviticus 20:7-8 "Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I <am> the LORD your God. {8} And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I <am> the LORD which sanctify you."
Exodus 31:13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it <is> a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that <ye> may know that I <am> the LORD that doth sanctify you."
Jehovah - Nissi
The LORD my banner or ensign.
Exodus 17:10-12 "So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. {11} And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. {12} But Moses' hands <were> heavy; and they took a stone, and put <it> under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."
Exodus 17:14-15 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this <for> a memorial in a book, and rehearse <it> in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. {15} And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:"
Jehovah - Rapha
The LORD who heals.
Exodus 15:26 "And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I <am> the LORD that healeth thee."
Psalms 103:3 "Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;"
Psalms 107:20 "He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered <them> from their destructions."
Isaiah 53:4-5 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. {5} But he <was> wounded for our transgressions, <he was> bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace <was> upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
Jehovah - Roi
The LORD my shepherd.
Psalms 23:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD <is> my shepherd; I shall not want."
Principal of Roi is fulfilled in the New Testament as shepherd:
Mark 6:34 "And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things."
Hebrews 13:20 "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,"
Jehovah - Saboath
The LORD of hosts (angelic armies).
1 Samuel 1:3 "And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the LORD, <were> there."
James 5:4 "Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth."
Jehovah - Shalom
The LORD our Peace.
Judges 6:24 "Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it <is> yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites."
Principal of Shalom is fulfilled in the New Testament for peace:
John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." Jesus's peace.
Jehovah - Shammah
The LORD is present.
Ezekiel 48:35 "<It was> round about eighteen thousand <measures>: and the name of the city from <that> day <shall be>, The LORD <is> there."
Jehovah - Tsidkenu
The LORD our righteousness.
Jeremiah 23:6 "In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this <is> his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jeremiah 33:16 "In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this <is the name> wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."
Principal of Tsidkenu fulfilled in New Testament righteousness:
1 Corinthians 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
EL - Elyon
Most high God. To be elevated. It emphasizes God as the exalted, sovereign one.
Psalms 21:7 "For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved."
El - Gmulot
The God of recompense.
Jeremiah 51:56 "Because the spoiler is come upon her, <even> upon Babylon, and her mighty men are taken, every one of their bows is broken: for the LORD God of recompenses shall surely requite."
El - Olam
Everlasting God. (Olam means age, or hidden.)
Isaiah 40:28 "Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, <that> the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? <there is> no searching of his understanding."
El - Roi
The God of sight - who keeps watch.
Genesis 16:13 "And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?"
El - Shaddai
God Almighty. Two roots for the word: 1) to be powerful; and 2) breast, nourisher, sustainer.
Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I <am> the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." |
http://www.dianedew.com/name-god.htm |
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Brother Philip
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 4611
Location: Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jannie wrote: | | other one wrote: | | Tdye84 wrote: | I am shocked at myself for not remembering this next verse until now: The famous verse, John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Most of us here are aware that this is speaking of Christ. Christ is God. The exacts of the Trinity and how it operates aside, Christ is God. Yes, by all means, worship Christ! |
Tdye, the two words that are translated God in that verse are not the same. The English translation just using the word God for both puts meaning in the sentence that is not there in the original. |
Actually, there are many names for God....also called Lord, interchangeably.
To deny that Jesus is Lord is to deny Him as God.
In the Old Testament, alone....Jesus created all things, He's the redeemer and the righteous one. Jesus is God and Lord. He is God with us...Emmanuel.
| Matthew 1:23 wrote: | | Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. |
If you look carefully through this list you'll see Jesus...over and over again.
| Quote: | The Names of God and Their Meaning in the Old Testament
Jah/Yah
LORD or Kurios in Greek
Psalms 68:4 "Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him."
Isaiah 12:2 "Behold, God <is> my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH <is> my strength and <my> song; he also is become my salvation."
Isaiah 26:4 "Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH <is> everlasting strength:"
Jehovah/Yahweh/Yahway or YHVH/YHWH
LORD, meaning: He will be, eternal, to be, to exist, and always is. Unchangeable. This name is unique to God alone. The covenant-keeping God. (El Shaddai shows God as coverant maker.)
Exodus 3:13-14 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, <when> I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What <is> his name? what shall I say unto them? {14} And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by <the name of> God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Jehovah - Adon (singular); Jehovah - Adonai (plural)
LORD of lords. To judge or rule. Includes meaning of master of owner as well as lord. Emphasizes God as almighty ruler and covenant- keeper.
Nehemiah 10:29 "They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes"
Psalms 109:21 "But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake: because thy mercy <is> good, deliver thou me."
YHVH
LORD. Used with Adonai Lord in Exodus 4:10
Exodus 4:10 "And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I <am> not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I <am> slow of speech, and of a slow tongue."
Jehovah - El
Singular form - LORD God.
Psalms 31:5 "Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth."
Jehovah - Elohim
Uni-Plural form (3-in-1) - LORD Gods; Strong or mighty and object of fear. The compound emphasizes God as: creator, governing and redeeming man. Also God's direct connection with the nation of Israel.
Genesis 2:4 "These <are> the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"
Numbers 23:22 "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn."
Jehovah - Elyon
The LORD most high.
Psalms 7:17 "I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high."
Jehovah - Jireh
The LORD will provide.
Genesis 22:13-14 "And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind <him> a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. {14} And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said <to> this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."
Principal of Jireh is fulfilled in the New Testament for any need
Matthew 21:22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."
Philippians 4:19 "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
Jehovah - Makeh
The LORD smites, punishes sin.
Ezekiel 7:9 "And mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: I will recompense thee according to thy ways and thine abominations <that> are in the midst of thee; and ye shall know that I <am> the LORD that smiteth."
Jehovah - Mekaddishkem
The LORD our sanctifer.
Leviticus 20:7-8 "Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I <am> the LORD your God. {8} And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I <am> the LORD which sanctify you."
Exodus 31:13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it <is> a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that <ye> may know that I <am> the LORD that doth sanctify you."
Jehovah - Nissi
The LORD my banner or ensign.
Exodus 17:10-12 "So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. {11} And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. {12} But Moses' hands <were> heavy; and they took a stone, and put <it> under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."
Exodus 17:14-15 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this <for> a memorial in a book, and rehearse <it> in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. {15} And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:"
Jehovah - Rapha
The LORD who heals.
Exodus 15:26 "And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I <am> the LORD that healeth thee."
Psalms 103:3 "Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;"
Psalms 107:20 "He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered <them> from their destructions."
Isaiah 53:4-5 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. {5} But he <was> wounded for our transgressions, <he was> bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace <was> upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
Jehovah - Roi
The LORD my shepherd.
Psalms 23:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD <is> my shepherd; I shall not want."
Principal of Roi is fulfilled in the New Testament as shepherd:
Mark 6:34 "And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things."
Hebrews 13:20 "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,"
Jehovah - Saboath
The LORD of hosts (angelic armies).
1 Samuel 1:3 "And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the LORD, <were> there."
James 5:4 "Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth."
Jehovah - Shalom
The LORD our Peace.
Judges 6:24 "Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it <is> yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites."
Principal of Shalom is fulfilled in the New Testament for peace:
John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." Jesus's peace.
Jehovah - Shammah
The LORD is present.
Ezekiel 48:35 "<It was> round about eighteen thousand <measures>: and the name of the city from <that> day <shall be>, The LORD <is> there."
Jehovah - Tsidkenu
The LORD our righteousness.
Jeremiah 23:6 "In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this <is> his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jeremiah 33:16 "In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this <is the name> wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."
Principal of Tsidkenu fulfilled in New Testament righteousness:
1 Corinthians 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
EL - Elyon
Most high God. To be elevated. It emphasizes God as the exalted, sovereign one.
Psalms 21:7 "For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved."
El - Gmulot
The God of recompense.
Jeremiah 51:56 "Because the spoiler is come upon her, <even> upon Babylon, and her mighty men are taken, every one of their bows is broken: for the LORD God of recompenses shall surely requite."
El - Olam
Everlasting God. (Olam means age, or hidden.)
Isaiah 40:28 "Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, <that> the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? <there is> no searching of his understanding."
El - Roi
The God of sight - who keeps watch.
Genesis 16:13 "And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?"
El - Shaddai
God Almighty. Two roots for the word: 1) to be powerful; and 2) breast, nourisher, sustainer.
Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I <am> the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." |
http://www.dianedew.com/name-god.htm |
there are many characteristics /sides of God |
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