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graceandpeace
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1706
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | I note it, but we are not kings and priests YET-------this is a proclamation of the future----------if we are kings and priests NOW , i would have to say we are Failures and misrepresenting Jesus-------- this is a FUTURE END RESULT with our resurrected bodies------------- as it is you Find a scripture and use it to Fit your doctrines ----------when in fact your discernment is OFF again------------ as john states MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS- IT DID NOT HAPPEN YET-------Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
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Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Show me how we are reigning now- do we reign in Pain death, terror, rape, murder, lies, theft and our Messiah so radically ignored and disrespected--------
you are fooled to think the kingdom of Jesus is so weak ---------
when IN FACT it is Yet to COME------------- yes Jesus reigns in heaven and we have Power and glory Now but this is Nothing compared to when Satan Is Bound and WE ARE NOT RESTRAINED IN OUR FLESHLY BODIES |
Perhaps you're not seated with Christ in the heavenlies, praying with His power, or using your access to Him to offer Him yourself as a sacrifice. There are saints that do, you know? The Word tells us we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us....I believe it. Granted, we are still trapped in these physical bodies, but that will change at the resurrection...it will become much clearer then. |
you never SEE do you-------- things that will come to pass-------- John was there at Jesus's resurrection---------- yet HE still Used things to come -------- why did he not use Have already been-------- because they ARE NOT HERE YET-------------your wasting your time reading the bible , if your do anyway- because you disregard scripture and only apply it to your AMILL ways---------------we have prayer power but we are not kings/priests yet-------you always Dance around what people ask you - BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS---------------If Jesus was reigning on earth ----------why is it so messed up ---------and dont give me that flesh man sin stuff - are we more powerfull than Jesus-------- No -------------the answer is simple satan stilll holds the "deed" to the earth and his principalities and powers and thrones and demons are still making havoc------------- just as Paul stated---------------------------but you will never SEE because you cant fathom to be wrong-------Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ----------PAUL SAID IT IT MUST BE TRUE--------------------------but you will come up with some nonesence about it being symbolic------------you ,right NOW ,are being fooled by the SAME POWERS that you claim are bound , they have you right were they want you , living in ignorance-----------------ignorance is bliss, at least you believe Jesus is REAL and not a SYMBOLIC person
your disbelief will not change the fact that Gods PLAN will still move forward------------so i guess your safe eitherway- I would not be surprized if you and Grace are sitting by me at the wedding feast------------ i would like to say i told you guys so --------- but ALL "fleshly ways " will be gone then, thank goodness |
I find it interesting you continue to say I use scripture to support my "amil ways". I post scripture...that it supports what I say doesn't change the fact that scripture is true as written. My views were formed from these verses...the verses were not formed to fit my views.  You choose to toss them out because they don't support your own views. For instance, you claim Jesus does not rule and reign now even though the Word says clearly He not only does, but He must...(1 Cor. 15:25) "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." That you can't grasp He is reigning now from that statement isn't my lack, but yours. I realized the truth of that verse way before I had an inkling I tended toward amil.
You deny we're priests now, in spite of what the Word says quite clearly. The priesthood of the believers is not an amil view...it goes across the board. It's a well-known Christian doctrine from the beginning of the church.
| 1 Peter 2 wrote: | | Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. |
Because you don't personally approve of the way the Lord rules and reigns, you deny His power and authority. God does not rule to suit the fancies of men. That He doesn't bind satan tightly enough to suit you does not mean He hasn't bound satan within the parameters He's set. God does not hold your personal comfort as His greatest priority. His concern is allowing the tares to grow up along side the wheat until the earth is ripe. I'm sure He doesn't approve of the church sitting helplessly by waiting for Him to deliver them manna from heaven. The laborers are few when men deny Jesus has given them His power over all principalities. Waa waa...sit on your duff until the Lord returns and makes all the boo boos better. Sorry, brother Phil, but that is not what his body is supposed to be doing. |
Amen, I am so sick of someone claiming a label when it is the SCRIPTURES themselves that proclaim the NOW fulfillment of things.
It is almost as IF the enemy is undoing everything God has accomplished through Jesus, our LORD and OUR GOD!
The new covenant is NOT about the law, Bosco!
The new covenant is NOT about a earthly kingdom, Bro phil.
It is about entering by FAITH, into HEAVENLY PLACES..that does NOT come with observation.
Go ahead and keep looking for it to come to the jews, whom have already entered in over 2,000 years ago. If the church would get busy and preach the GOSPEL, and, the WAY of the LORD/NEW covenant, more would enter in...yet we know that His very word states that the truth would be so unheard of in our day, and, we are standing smack dab in the middle of the apostacy, and no one can see it, because they are looking for it to come..at some future time. IT IS HERE! It has been here, since the days of Paul...it is just more widespread now..but, it is the SAME apostacy! |
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graceandpeace
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1706
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jannie wrote: | | Bosco wrote: | | ilovethethunder wrote: | Where is the scripture that says that satan was bound at the cross so that the word could be preached?
I think you have made this up..Yes it was sins that were crucified at the cross which Jesus took on and conquered. |
There is nothing that says satan was bound at the cross or stake or whatever it was. In fact:
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? >>Here was a post cross appearance of satan.
To the cross was nailed the "law" of sin and death.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
We have been made free not from God's laws, but from the law of sin and death. Adam sinned, death entered the world. A life of sin equals death. Yehoshua knows no sin, is put to death and is raised, and we are free from sin and death because the death of perfection equals life.
What else was nailed to the cross?
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances(DOGMA) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Ordinaces, translated from dogma, means civil, ceremonial, or church laws. The word dogma is "never" used in the Greek manuscripts pertaining to God's laws, only man made ones. An example of man made laws is this; there are 7 laws pertaining to the Sabbath in Torah. But rabbinic Judaism has 39 CATEGORIES of law and 4000 laws total relating to the Sabbath. THAT is the burden no man can carry.
So sin and death and man made additions to God's instructions for us is what has been done away with, nailed to the cross. IMO
Peace.
Ken |
Sin and death....and who is the author of sin and death?
Satan's head was crushed at the cross.
Many in the church understand that Satan was defeated at the cross.
It's the same as many know Jesus rules and reigns now, but others prefer to lean on their own understanding rather than what the Word tells us. We're to walk by faith, not by sight, because our vision is too often clouded to the truth. How many don't consider themselves dead to sin even though the Word tells us we are?
When the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan, Jesus replied, "How can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?" The word used by Matthew (delta epsilon omega) to describe the binding of the strong man is the same word used in Revelation 20 to describe the binding of Satan. Why would Jesus be talking about binding the strong man?
| Matt. 12 wrote: | | 22Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. |
In Luke 10, when the seventy disciples returned from their mission they said to Jesus, | Luke 10:17-18 wrote: | | And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. |
Jesus said satan was "cast out" NOW, and when He was resurrected He would draw all men to Him.....satan would not be able to stop the spread of the Gospel. I've read the verb translated "cast out" (epsilon kappa beta alpha lambda lambda omega) is derived from the same root as the word used in Revelation 20:3 when it says an angel "threw [ballo] him into the abyss."
| John 12:31-32 wrote: | | Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. |
Because Satan is now bound, he is no longer able to deceive the nations as he did before the first coming of Christ. The binding of Satan during the Gospel age means he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel nor can he deceive the nations as he'll be able to do when he's loosed just prior to the Lord's second coming. Satan is a spiritual being so chains and locks are not what's being referred to in Rev. |
Keep preaching the truth, sis....  |
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graceandpeace
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1706
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosco wrote: | Jannie, the covenant with Abraham was cut but it would be YEARS before aspects of it came into being. To this very day, certain aspects of the covenant with Abraham are yet to come to fruition. They will.
The cutting of the new covenant was done on the cross when Yehoshua shed his blood. But the new covenant has not come to fruition yet because, as stated in Jeremiah 31:31-34, Judah and Israel have not been reunited as one House yet, they will.
So yes, satan's power over life and death hinges on what happened on the cross. But as per the verse I shared, satan was around and effective after the ascension and is as well today. He was not bound on the cross... the mechanism which will neuter him was established at the cross. But like the covenants I mentioned... the frame work is in place, but has not come to fruition. Satan can still deceive and has not been bound yet. He will be.
Peace.
Ken |
This is as far away from the truth as one can get.
This is the type of doctrine that DOES need to be OPENLY REBUKED!
This is denying the finished work on the cross that FULLY brought in a NEW covenant, NOT based anything like the old, for the new is NOT like the old:
Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
The new is not based on old promises of physical land, etc..it is based on BETTER things.
Hbr 8:7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
The old was FAULTY.
Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
The fault was that NO ONE could keep the law!
Hbr 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
The new is NOT according to the old!
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
The old has vanished away!
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Hbr 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
It is through His shed blood that the new covenant is DIFFERENT....and, BETTER. The blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. The old covenant stone law could not cleanse a conscience; no one could keep it, and it only had the purpose to condemn.
When these essentials are torn down, someone needs to speak the truth! |
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graceandpeace
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1706
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosco wrote: | | ilovethethunder wrote: | Where is the scripture that says that satan was bound at the cross so that the word could be preached?
I think you have made this up..Yes it was sins that were crucified at the cross which Jesus took on and conquered. |
There is nothing that says satan was bound at the cross or stake or whatever it was. In fact:
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? >>Here was a post cross appearance of satan.
To the cross was nailed the "law" of sin and death.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
We have been made free not from God's laws, but from the law of sin and death. Adam sinned, death entered the world. A life of sin equals death. Yehoshua knows no sin, is put to death and is raised, and we are free from sin and death because the death of perfection equals life.
What else was nailed to the cross?
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances(DOGMA) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Ordinaces, translated from dogma, means civil, ceremonial, or church laws. The word dogma is "never" used in the Greek manuscripts pertaining to God's laws, only man made ones. An example of man made laws is this; there are 7 laws pertaining to the Sabbath in Torah. But rabbinic Judaism has 39 CATEGORIES of law and 4000 laws total relating to the Sabbath. THAT is the burden no man can carry.
So sin and death and man made additions to God's instructions for us is what has been done away with, nailed to the cross. IMO
Peace.
Ken |
The stone law is the law of sin and death! It can only condemn...those whom put themselves back under it's jurisdiction have fallen from grace. |
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jannie
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1852
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| graceandpeace wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | I note it, but we are not kings and priests YET-------this is a proclamation of the future----------if we are kings and priests NOW , i would have to say we are Failures and misrepresenting Jesus-------- this is a FUTURE END RESULT with our resurrected bodies------------- as it is you Find a scripture and use it to Fit your doctrines ----------when in fact your discernment is OFF again------------ as john states MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS- IT DID NOT HAPPEN YET-------Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
-
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Show me how we are reigning now- do we reign in Pain death, terror, rape, murder, lies, theft and our Messiah so radically ignored and disrespected--------
you are fooled to think the kingdom of Jesus is so weak ---------
when IN FACT it is Yet to COME------------- yes Jesus reigns in heaven and we have Power and glory Now but this is Nothing compared to when Satan Is Bound and WE ARE NOT RESTRAINED IN OUR FLESHLY BODIES |
Perhaps you're not seated with Christ in the heavenlies, praying with His power, or using your access to Him to offer Him yourself as a sacrifice. There are saints that do, you know? The Word tells us we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us....I believe it. Granted, we are still trapped in these physical bodies, but that will change at the resurrection...it will become much clearer then. |
you never SEE do you-------- things that will come to pass-------- John was there at Jesus's resurrection---------- yet HE still Used things to come -------- why did he not use Have already been-------- because they ARE NOT HERE YET-------------your wasting your time reading the bible , if your do anyway- because you disregard scripture and only apply it to your AMILL ways---------------we have prayer power but we are not kings/priests yet-------you always Dance around what people ask you - BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS---------------If Jesus was reigning on earth ----------why is it so messed up ---------and dont give me that flesh man sin stuff - are we more powerfull than Jesus-------- No -------------the answer is simple satan stilll holds the "deed" to the earth and his principalities and powers and thrones and demons are still making havoc------------- just as Paul stated---------------------------but you will never SEE because you cant fathom to be wrong-------Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ----------PAUL SAID IT IT MUST BE TRUE--------------------------but you will come up with some nonesence about it being symbolic------------you ,right NOW ,are being fooled by the SAME POWERS that you claim are bound , they have you right were they want you , living in ignorance-----------------ignorance is bliss, at least you believe Jesus is REAL and not a SYMBOLIC person
your disbelief will not change the fact that Gods PLAN will still move forward------------so i guess your safe eitherway- I would not be surprized if you and Grace are sitting by me at the wedding feast------------ i would like to say i told you guys so --------- but ALL "fleshly ways " will be gone then, thank goodness |
I find it interesting you continue to say I use scripture to support my "amil ways". I post scripture...that it supports what I say doesn't change the fact that scripture is true as written. My views were formed from these verses...the verses were not formed to fit my views. You choose to toss them out because they don't support your own views. For instance, you claim Jesus does not rule and reign now even though the Word says clearly He not only does, but He must...(1 Cor. 15:25) "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." That you can't grasp He is reigning now from that statement isn't my lack, but yours. I realized the truth of that verse way before I had an inkling I tended toward amil.
You deny we're priests now, in spite of what the Word says quite clearly. The priesthood of the believers is not an amil view...it goes across the board. It's a well-known Christian doctrine from the beginning of the church.
| 1 Peter 2 wrote: | | Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. |
Because you don't personally approve of the way the Lord rules and reigns, you deny His power and authority. God does not rule to suit the fancies of men. That He doesn't bind satan tightly enough to suit you does not mean He hasn't bound satan within the parameters He's set. God does not hold your personal comfort as His greatest priority. His concern is allowing the tares to grow up along side the wheat until the earth is ripe. I'm sure He doesn't approve of the church sitting helplessly by waiting for Him to deliver them manna from heaven. The laborers are few when men deny Jesus has given them His power over all principalities. Waa waa...sit on your duff until the Lord returns and makes all the boo boos better. Sorry, brother Phil, but that is not what his body is supposed to be doing. |
Amen, I am so sick of someone claiming a label when it is the SCRIPTURES themselves that proclaim the NOW fulfillment of things.
It is almost as IF the enemy is undoing everything God has accomplished through Jesus, our LORD and OUR GOD!
The new covenant is NOT about the law, Bosco!
The new covenant is NOT about a earthly kingdom, Bro phil.
It is about entering by FAITH, into HEAVENLY PLACES..that does NOT come with observation.
Go ahead and keep looking for it to come to the jews, whom have already entered in over 2,000 years ago. If the church would get busy and preach the GOSPEL, and, the WAY of the LORD/NEW covenant, more would enter in...yet we know that His very word states that the truth would be so unheard of in our day, and, we are standing smack dab in the middle of the apostacy, and no one can see it, because they are looking for it to come..at some future time. IT IS HERE! It has been here, since the days of Paul...it is just more widespread now..but, it is the SAME apostacy! |
You are a light at the end of a dark tunnel, sister. If it weren't for you and the saints I know in my own life, I'd be convinced the church had lost it's way. It's as if Christ's work on the cross is being denied more with each passing day. First they say, He doesn't reign now, when the Word says He not only does but He MUST. Then they say, Jesus is not the One True God, and they keep Him stuck in the lowly position He willingly took on while on this earth. He isn't allowed to sit on David's throne until the "lost tribes" of Israel finally see the error of their ways and are given a second chance to atone for their sins. The heavenly kingdom Jesus preached is replaced by a man made version of a kingdom where Jesus will enforce righteousness. Something is definitely wrong with this picture. One day when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, I wonder how many will shout out, "No, not yet....the nation of Israel isn't restored yet...He can't be King and He can't be Lord, and He certainly can't be God. Lord does mean God...and if people can't confess that, He will not confess them, either. Even Thomas called Him rightly, "My Lord and my God." The church has no power because they deny Jesus's power...He isn't allowed to sit on the throne yet.  |
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jannie
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1852
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| graceandpeace wrote: | | Bosco wrote: | Jannie, the covenant with Abraham was cut but it would be YEARS before aspects of it came into being. To this very day, certain aspects of the covenant with Abraham are yet to come to fruition. They will.
The cutting of the new covenant was done on the cross when Yehoshua shed his blood. But the new covenant has not come to fruition yet because, as stated in Jeremiah 31:31-34, Judah and Israel have not been reunited as one House yet, they will.
So yes, satan's power over life and death hinges on what happened on the cross. But as per the verse I shared, satan was around and effective after the ascension and is as well today. He was not bound on the cross... the mechanism which will neuter him was established at the cross. But like the covenants I mentioned... the frame work is in place, but has not come to fruition. Satan can still deceive and has not been bound yet. He will be.
Peace.
Ken |
This is as far away from the truth as one can get.
This is the type of doctrine that DOES need to be OPENLY REBUKED!
This is denying the finished work on the cross that FULLY brought in a NEW covenant, NOT based anything like the old, for the new is NOT like the old:
Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
The new is not based on old promises of physical land, etc..it is based on BETTER things.
Hbr 8:7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
The old was FAULTY.
Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
The fault was that NO ONE could keep the law!
Hbr 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
The new is NOT according to the old!
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
The old has vanished away!
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Hbr 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
It is through His shed blood that the new covenant is DIFFERENT....and, BETTER. The blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. The old covenant stone law could not cleanse a conscience; no one could keep it, and it only had the purpose to condemn.
When these essentials are torn down, someone needs to speak the truth! |
Thank the Lord you do it so well.  |
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graceandpeace
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1706
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| jannie wrote: | | graceandpeace wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | | jannie wrote: | | Brother Philip wrote: | I note it, but we are not kings and priests YET-------this is a proclamation of the future----------if we are kings and priests NOW , i would have to say we are Failures and misrepresenting Jesus-------- this is a FUTURE END RESULT with our resurrected bodies------------- as it is you Find a scripture and use it to Fit your doctrines ----------when in fact your discernment is OFF again------------ as john states MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS- IT DID NOT HAPPEN YET-------Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
-
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Show me how we are reigning now- do we reign in Pain death, terror, rape, murder, lies, theft and our Messiah so radically ignored and disrespected--------
you are fooled to think the kingdom of Jesus is so weak ---------
when IN FACT it is Yet to COME------------- yes Jesus reigns in heaven and we have Power and glory Now but this is Nothing compared to when Satan Is Bound and WE ARE NOT RESTRAINED IN OUR FLESHLY BODIES |
Perhaps you're not seated with Christ in the heavenlies, praying with His power, or using your access to Him to offer Him yourself as a sacrifice. There are saints that do, you know? The Word tells us we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us....I believe it. Granted, we are still trapped in these physical bodies, but that will change at the resurrection...it will become much clearer then. |
you never SEE do you-------- things that will come to pass-------- John was there at Jesus's resurrection---------- yet HE still Used things to come -------- why did he not use Have already been-------- because they ARE NOT HERE YET-------------your wasting your time reading the bible , if your do anyway- because you disregard scripture and only apply it to your AMILL ways---------------we have prayer power but we are not kings/priests yet-------you always Dance around what people ask you - BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS---------------If Jesus was reigning on earth ----------why is it so messed up ---------and dont give me that flesh man sin stuff - are we more powerfull than Jesus-------- No -------------the answer is simple satan stilll holds the "deed" to the earth and his principalities and powers and thrones and demons are still making havoc------------- just as Paul stated---------------------------but you will never SEE because you cant fathom to be wrong-------Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ----------PAUL SAID IT IT MUST BE TRUE--------------------------but you will come up with some nonesence about it being symbolic------------you ,right NOW ,are being fooled by the SAME POWERS that you claim are bound , they have you right were they want you , living in ignorance-----------------ignorance is bliss, at least you believe Jesus is REAL and not a SYMBOLIC person
your disbelief will not change the fact that Gods PLAN will still move forward------------so i guess your safe eitherway- I would not be surprized if you and Grace are sitting by me at the wedding feast------------ i would like to say i told you guys so --------- but ALL "fleshly ways " will be gone then, thank goodness |
I find it interesting you continue to say I use scripture to support my "amil ways". I post scripture...that it supports what I say doesn't change the fact that scripture is true as written. My views were formed from these verses...the verses were not formed to fit my views. You choose to toss them out because they don't support your own views. For instance, you claim Jesus does not rule and reign now even though the Word says clearly He not only does, but He must...(1 Cor. 15:25) "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." That you can't grasp He is reigning now from that statement isn't my lack, but yours. I realized the truth of that verse way before I had an inkling I tended toward amil.
You deny we're priests now, in spite of what the Word says quite clearly. The priesthood of the believers is not an amil view...it goes across the board. It's a well-known Christian doctrine from the beginning of the church.
| 1 Peter 2 wrote: | | Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. |
Because you don't personally approve of the way the Lord rules and reigns, you deny His power and authority. God does not rule to suit the fancies of men. That He doesn't bind satan tightly enough to suit you does not mean He hasn't bound satan within the parameters He's set. God does not hold your personal comfort as His greatest priority. His concern is allowing the tares to grow up along side the wheat until the earth is ripe. I'm sure He doesn't approve of the church sitting helplessly by waiting for Him to deliver them manna from heaven. The laborers are few when men deny Jesus has given them His power over all principalities. Waa waa...sit on your duff until the Lord returns and makes all the boo boos better. Sorry, brother Phil, but that is not what his body is supposed to be doing. |
Amen, I am so sick of someone claiming a label when it is the SCRIPTURES themselves that proclaim the NOW fulfillment of things.
It is almost as IF the enemy is undoing everything God has accomplished through Jesus, our LORD and OUR GOD!
The new covenant is NOT about the law, Bosco!
The new covenant is NOT about a earthly kingdom, Bro phil.
It is about entering by FAITH, into HEAVENLY PLACES..that does NOT come with observation.
Go ahead and keep looking for it to come to the jews, whom have already entered in over 2,000 years ago. If the church would get busy and preach the GOSPEL, and, the WAY of the LORD/NEW covenant, more would enter in...yet we know that His very word states that the truth would be so unheard of in our day, and, we are standing smack dab in the middle of the apostacy, and no one can see it, because they are looking for it to come..at some future time. IT IS HERE! It has been here, since the days of Paul...it is just more widespread now..but, it is the SAME apostacy! |
You are a light at the end of a dark tunnel, sister. If it weren't for you and the saints I know in my own life, I'd be convinced the church had lost it's way. It's as if Christ's work on the cross is being denied more with each passing day. First they say, He doesn't reign now, when the Word says He not only does but He MUST. Then they say, Jesus is not the One True God, and they keep Him stuck in the lowly position He willingly took on while on this earth. He isn't allowed to sit on David's throne until the "lost tribes" of Israel finally see the error of their ways and are given a second chance to atone for their sins. The heavenly kingdom Jesus preached is replaced by a man made version of a kingdom where Jesus will enforce righteousness. Something is definitely wrong with this picture. One day when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, I wonder how many will shout out, "No, not yet....the nation of Israel isn't restored yet...He can't be King and He can't be Lord, and He certainly can't be God. Lord does mean God...and if people can't confess that, He will not confess them, either. Even Thomas called Him rightly, "My Lord and my God." The church has no power because they deny Jesus's power...He isn't allowed to sit on the throne yet. |
EXACTLY! |
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Brother Philip
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 4611
Location: Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| you two woman are going to "pat" yourselves on the Back all the way to being LOST and deceived------------------- |
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Bosco
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| jannie wrote: | Oh my....I have to wonder if Jesus accomplished anything on the cross, and what He meant by, "It is finished". From what I'm hearing, Jesus finished nothing.  |
Sorry you take it that way. If you can't see that the covenant with Abraham was cut allowing for it to come to fruition but that it hasn't YET, I can't say anymore. The "Promised Land" Jannie is NOT where Israel currently sits. The actual land promised to Israel encompases almost the whole Middle East and part of Egypt. Yet, that was the land promised in the covenant made with Abraham and the Israelites have NEVER taken possession of the whole promised land. Why, because while the covenant was cut, the promise was made, it has not been TIME fo rthem to take the land. Everything has been done, but the TIME has not come according to God's plan.
Jannie, at the cross the work to redeem only MAN was accomplished? No, redemption of ALL of creation was accomplished. So is the earth still in a state of entropy? Do stars still die and explode? Are animals going extinct? Yes to all... so the covenant has been cut, but has not been implimented just as the covenant with Abraham has not been fully implimented. The Northern and Southern Kingdoms are still split, satan is still on earth as I pointed out in Acts.... but when Messiah returns he will impliment what his work on the cross paved the way for.
| Quote: | | He doesn't rule and reign, He isn't equal to God, He has not bound satan because people still see satan having great power, and now I see we must wait around for the nation of Israel to be restored. I can only shake my head and wonder why Christ died for mankind. |
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The "god of this world" (the system of things) is satan, not YHWH. And Paul is pretty clearly showing us that in his day, which was after the cross, satan was working to keep the light of the good news from reaching those who want to see it. Will he be successful? Ultimately no, we have an High Priest making intercession for us. But this doesn't change what it says.
As for the rest... it is modern pre-tribulation rapture theology that says, "nothing else has to happen before we are whisked outta here." But that isn't supported in scripture. When you compare the timing of Ezekiel 37 to other scripture, the awakening of the Lost Sheep happens before Messiah's return, and the rejoining of the two Kingdoms happens either just prior or at the return. Heaven will keep Yehoshua UNTIL the time of restoring...making things as they should be, which was spoken by God through his prophets of old since the beginning of the world. (Acts 3:19-21)
| Quote: | | Who would have thought the great apostacy would come from a "restored" worship of Israel. We'll just throw out those scriptures about our being children of Abraham, and forget that Christ is the seed...not the nation of Israel. |
What makes you think we are not living in the great apostacy now? Apostacy is an abandonment of the will of God. Do you see this world walking according to God's instructions... or are they teaching those instructions were nailed to the cross? Think about it sis.
Peace.
Ken |
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Brother Philip
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 4611
Location: Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Bosco wrote: | Jannie, the covenant with Abraham was cut but it would be YEARS before aspects of it came into being. To this very day, certain aspects of the covenant with Abraham are yet to come to fruition. They will.
The cutting of the new covenant was done on the cross when Yehoshua shed his blood. But the new covenant has not come to fruition yet because, as stated in Jeremiah 31:31-34, Judah and Israel have not been reunited as one House yet, they will.
So yes, satan's power over life and death hinges on what happened on the cross. But as per the verse I shared, satan was around and effective after the ascension and is as well today. He was not bound on the cross... the mechanism which will neuter him was established at the cross. But like the covenants I mentioned... the frame work is in place, but has not come to fruition. Satan can still deceive and has not been bound yet. He will be.
Peace.
Ken |
the reason they Cant SEE, is they are hindered by the SAME powers they believe are bound |
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teleiosis
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 2070
Location: Somewhere over America
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Satan has been cast down.
He has been working the last 2000 years.
He thought he destroyed Israel.
He has been persecuting God's people through anti-Semitism.
He will be the power behind the rise of the anti-Christ.
He knows his time is short... but he still thinks he can win against God.
He doesn't believe in a literal interpretation of end-time prophecy -
- and he doesn't want you to believe in a literal interpretation of it either. |
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Bosco
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Brother Philip wrote: | | you two woman are going to "pat" yourselves on the Back all the way to being LOST and deceived------------------- |
Phillip, I appreciate your mind and hunger, but do we really need to go there? There are different levels of understanding, different levels of maturity we all go through. I might be strong in an area you are weak in, while you may be stronger in an area I am weak in. That's good, that is at it should be, for together we make a more complete body. We will simply not always agree on every point, and that is ok too. First if all we would have nothing to talk about if we did, but also it simply points to the different ways in which we grow. Check out these two verses together...
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Whether it is milk or meat we ingest, it is the milk and meat of God, not satan. That isn't to say we are error proof... God forbid! But one who is below you on one level might be on meat in another. We must be carefull how we treat each other, if we belong to God and cause strife between each other, we profane that which God says is holy.
Peace.
Ken |
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Bosco
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Brother Philip wrote: | | the reason they Cant SEE, is tthey are hindered by the SAME powers they believe are bound |
Maybe, or maybe some just aren't ready for certain aspects in scripture? We do not find unless we seek... we don't get answers unless we ask questions. I am sure Jannie (for example) has a heart for God and wants to serve him as best she can. But a person cannot "prove all things" if on certain things, a person's mind is made up. Personally, aside from Yehoshua being who he is and knowing what he did for us, where he is now, and what he will do when he comes back... aside from that, I question EVERYTHING. I don't assume that because I was taught X all my life that it actually means X. It may, but it may not and I won't know unless I open my mind and seek God for an answer. Jannie believes satan was bound at the cross, you and I see it a little differently. We see the work to bind him done there, but that the binding has not been implimented yet. This belief of ours, and hers, does not affect our standing with God in any way. Denying Yehoshua... yea, that would do it. But thinking at any minute I might be whisked outta here, how does that affect one's salvation? How does it affect whether or not that person is a brother or sister in Messiah?
Denominations and sects are splits in the body, and most have occured because of petty differences and an unwillingness to allow folks to draw their own conclusions. We can't change minds, we can't change hearts, all we can do is plant seeds in a loving and kind way and pray. The rest is up to God.
Peace Phillip.
Ken |
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sissy
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 2057
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Bosco wrote: | | We will simply not always agree on every point, and that is ok too. First if all we would have nothing to talk about if we did, |
Reminds me of a statement I heard.
If two people agree on everything, then one is unnecessary.
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Bosco
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| sissy wrote: | | Bosco wrote: | | We will simply not always agree on every point, and that is ok too. First if all we would have nothing to talk about if we did, |
Reminds me of a statement I heard.
If two people agree on everything, then one is unnecessary.
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True enough sissy! The most profound statements usually come in the least amount of words!
Blessings.
Ken |
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